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18 Кб, 400x267What does /pol/ think of Ukrainian nationalism?
Were Bandera and the OUN really so horrible and bloodthirsty?
Take this on their wikipedia page for example:
An OUN order from early 1944 stated:
Liquidate all Polish traces. Destroy all walls in the Catholic Church and other Polish prayer houses. Destroy orchards and trees in the courtyards so that there will be no trace that someone lived there... Pay attention to the fact that when something remains that is Polish, then the Poles will have pretensions to our land".
UPA commander's order of 6 April 1944 stated: "Fight them [the Poles] unmercifully. No one is to be spared, even in case of mixed marriages"[123]
Timothy Snyder describes the murders: "Ukrainian partisans burned homes, shot or forced back inside those who tried to flee, and used sickles and pitchforks to kill those they captured outside. In some cases, beheaded, crucified, dismembered, or disemboweled bodies were displayed, in order to encourage remaining Poles to flee".[41] A similar account has been presented by Niall Ferguson, who wrote: "Whole villages were wiped out, men beaten to death, women raped and mutilated, babies bayoneted."[124] Ukrainian historian Yuryi Kirichuk described the conflict as similar to medieval rebellions.
It seems to make more sense that the Soviet wanted to push the knife further into Ukrainian nationalism through slander, control of the narrative generally.
It's like "hey guys, here is exactly what we're going to do, with especially evocative writing."
It seems like it's too retarded to exist without having been created for propaganda purposes.
What is the truth?
Were Bandera and the OUN really so horrible and bloodthirsty?
Take this on their wikipedia page for example:
An OUN order from early 1944 stated:
Liquidate all Polish traces. Destroy all walls in the Catholic Church and other Polish prayer houses. Destroy orchards and trees in the courtyards so that there will be no trace that someone lived there... Pay attention to the fact that when something remains that is Polish, then the Poles will have pretensions to our land".
UPA commander's order of 6 April 1944 stated: "Fight them [the Poles] unmercifully. No one is to be spared, even in case of mixed marriages"[123]
Timothy Snyder describes the murders: "Ukrainian partisans burned homes, shot or forced back inside those who tried to flee, and used sickles and pitchforks to kill those they captured outside. In some cases, beheaded, crucified, dismembered, or disemboweled bodies were displayed, in order to encourage remaining Poles to flee".[41] A similar account has been presented by Niall Ferguson, who wrote: "Whole villages were wiped out, men beaten to death, women raped and mutilated, babies bayoneted."[124] Ukrainian historian Yuryi Kirichuk described the conflict as similar to medieval rebellions.
It seems to make more sense that the Soviet wanted to push the knife further into Ukrainian nationalism through slander, control of the narrative generally.
It's like "hey guys, here is exactly what we're going to do, with especially evocative writing."
It seems like it's too retarded to exist without having been created for propaganda purposes.
What is the truth?
53 Кб, 665x418
2 66065>/pol/
Sorry I copied + pasted, forgot to change. Here is the second part:
It seems to fit that the holodomor falls in line with the same idea. Do these accusations make sense? I'm not so sure. Don't we have enough evidence that the Soviets were basically the unchallenged centralized authority on asiatic steroids? Why do we think that they were fine while characterizing a nation that has almost literally always been enslaved or otherwise royally fucked over in history. It seems more likely that that nation would like to, in a phrase, stand up on its own two feet. Hold its head up high. This sort of thing. That seems to be what Bandera was after, those higher, more ennobling destinations. That's how he strikes me, reading about him.
But I can't say for sure, I have no idea of course. However, I do love them. I am smitten by that idea being the uplifting force embodying state authority. If that's why those people are in the streets then that's probably one of the most based thing that exists in these times.
Of course I'm only interested in the truth, I have no idea what has happened in history, I am not a historian. I'm just here wondering what your opinion is generally and on particular things of importance.
3 66066fuck nazis
4 66108nazis are bad
5 66116>>66064 (OP)
This is not /pol/ you faggot leaf and it isn't 4kanker either for the matter
This is not /pol/ you faggot leaf and it isn't 4kanker either for the matter
7 66136Ha ha ha!
Modern russians are more nazi than modern ukrainians.
Nacism by definition make the statement that one nation is better than others... Reead russian news, talk to modern russians. What you will see/hear??? Amricans are idiots. Europeans are gays and stupid. Asians are monkeys. Arabs are "churkas"...
This is the reality... Modern russians are fucking nazzi
Modern russians are more nazi than modern ukrainians.
Nacism by definition make the statement that one nation is better than others... Reead russian news, talk to modern russians. What you will see/hear??? Amricans are idiots. Europeans are gays and stupid. Asians are monkeys. Arabs are "churkas"...
This is the reality... Modern russians are fucking nazzi
8 66138>>66136
But its all true, its not nazi to say the truth m8
>Amricans are idiots. Europeans are gays and stupid. Asians are monkeys. Arabs are "churkas"...
But its all true, its not nazi to say the truth m8
9 66140>>66138
True???)))
The same opinion was stated by the average german citizen during reich time. And it was "true" for them, that's why they burned people in concentration camps.
You are the nazzi according to your thoughts... One day you will realize it. Just stop eat the propaganda for couple of months
>> Amricans are idiots. Europeans are gays and stupid. Asians are monkeys. Arabs are "churkas"...
>>>But its all true, its not nazi to say the truth m8
True???)))
The same opinion was stated by the average german citizen during reich time. And it was "true" for them, that's why they burned people in concentration camps.
You are the nazzi according to your thoughts... One day you will realize it. Just stop eat the propaganda for couple of months
10 66141>>66136
so russians are people of sound judgement
> Amricans are idiots. Europeans are gays and stupid. Asians are monkeys. Arabs are "churkas"
so russians are people of sound judgement
11 66143>>66141
Judgment and russians are controversial statements.
How can you judge if your country doesn't have the culture of justice :)?
>>so russians are people of sound judgement
Judgment and russians are controversial statements.
How can you judge if your country doesn't have the culture of justice :)?
46 Кб, 636x382 12 66144>>66140
nah germans are fags dude, thats why the statement "europe is gay and stupid" is correct.
nah germans are fags dude, thats why the statement "europe is gay and stupid" is correct.
23 Кб, 500x641 13 66145>>66143
cuz russia is anarchist. we never follow the law. because humans are not perfect and can not judge, only the Almighty can judge us. because he can see us he can hear us and he knows best.
>How can you judge if your country doesn't have the culture of justice :)?
cuz russia is anarchist. we never follow the law. because humans are not perfect and can not judge, only the Almighty can judge us. because he can see us he can hear us and he knows best.
14 66147>>66064 (OP)
they was, UPA is sort of collaborationists for... some mysterious ukrainianssecretly they are russians too, but created new language based on dialect people on Don-river spoke and 'culture' based on cossacks., so basically they werent better than nazis or soviets. ukrainian nationalism sounds like canadian or aussies nationalism
they was, UPA is sort of collaborationists for... some mysterious ukrainianssecretly they are russians too, but created new language based on dialect people on Don-river spoke and 'culture' based on cossacks., so basically they werent better than nazis or soviets. ukrainian nationalism sounds like canadian or aussies nationalism
15 66148 16 66149>>66064 (OP)
Just a gang of terrorists, who were able to conduct their activities in a 33-40 years mess.
A political terrorist, who may be were following his ideals and targets, but terrorist is a terrorist anyway.
>OUN
Just a gang of terrorists, who were able to conduct their activities in a 33-40 years mess.
>Bandera
A political terrorist, who may be were following his ideals and targets, but terrorist is a terrorist anyway.
18 66160>>66154
its only for jews. muslims just copy because jews refused to convert them to judaism, so muslims copy and invented new religion based on jewish and christians beliefs. for muslim is not a sin to eat pork, he just believes it is a sin.
its only for jews. muslims just copy because jews refused to convert them to judaism, so muslims copy and invented new religion based on jewish and christians beliefs. for muslim is not a sin to eat pork, he just believes it is a sin.
19 66232>>66064 (OP)
Bandera and OUN were not charged at the Nuremberg trials, though their cases were examined.
"Yes, of course, before the war, the Ukrainian nationalists had contacts with Germany, in particular with military intelligence (the Abwehr). It goes without saying that the Germans were planning to use the OUN in their own interests. Just the same Bandera was going to use the Germans for their own but unlike purposes and wherein they achieved great success. The ties with the Germans were cut immediately after the proclamation of the Act of the Ukrainian State Restoration on June 30, 1941 in Lviv. Just in July it was turned out that the Agent Grey (as Bandera was listed in the Abwehr papers) was taken under home arrest and then he was sent to the Sachsenhausen camp. The actual war began between the Reich and the reconstructed Ukrainian state and that fact is proved by the Nuremberg Trials papers."
Bandera and OUN were not charged at the Nuremberg trials, though their cases were examined.
"Yes, of course, before the war, the Ukrainian nationalists had contacts with Germany, in particular with military intelligence (the Abwehr). It goes without saying that the Germans were planning to use the OUN in their own interests. Just the same Bandera was going to use the Germans for their own but unlike purposes and wherein they achieved great success. The ties with the Germans were cut immediately after the proclamation of the Act of the Ukrainian State Restoration on June 30, 1941 in Lviv. Just in July it was turned out that the Agent Grey (as Bandera was listed in the Abwehr papers) was taken under home arrest and then he was sent to the Sachsenhausen camp. The actual war began between the Reich and the reconstructed Ukrainian state and that fact is proved by the Nuremberg Trials papers."
20 66246>>66064 (OP)
The first time I've heard ukrainians being not friendly to Poland was on the Russian TV in 2014 when ukrainians rose against pro-russian president.
The first time I've heard ukrainians being not friendly to Poland was on the Russian TV in 2014 when ukrainians rose against pro-russian president.
21 66252>>66232
who gives a fuck ? russia is 1000 years old empire and everybody will be crushed under gusiniza of tank
who gives a fuck ? russia is 1000 years old empire and everybody will be crushed under gusiniza of tank
23 66274>>66252
What was russia 1000 years ago is now known as Ukraine. Russian Federation exists about 30 years. Russian nation is yet to be created.
What was russia 1000 years ago is now known as Ukraine. Russian Federation exists about 30 years. Russian nation is yet to be created.
27 66305>>66064 (OP)
I don't know particularly well but for me it's best that all Slavic people's unite into a single state, excepting the south slavic one (they unite into their own) and pursue exactly what Hitler did but for their own people and etc. If more states looked to the protection of their people and the well being of them as well while not being asses to others (except those who fuck every single nation) then the world would be a lot more peaceful. Despite all those claims that nationalism is inherently militaristically expansive it is pretty untrue when we see that actual nationalism, like the one practiced in germany, looked for peaceful resolutions to problems, like the one in Poland. Had the Poles worked with the Germans and accepted the voting stuff then there would be no massive war, at least that year.
Furthermore, had the Serbs not tried to impose serbification on the non muslims, yugoslavia would probably still exist today and would be a pretty good country honestly. I love serbia.
I don't know particularly well but for me it's best that all Slavic people's unite into a single state, excepting the south slavic one (they unite into their own) and pursue exactly what Hitler did but for their own people and etc. If more states looked to the protection of their people and the well being of them as well while not being asses to others (except those who fuck every single nation) then the world would be a lot more peaceful. Despite all those claims that nationalism is inherently militaristically expansive it is pretty untrue when we see that actual nationalism, like the one practiced in germany, looked for peaceful resolutions to problems, like the one in Poland. Had the Poles worked with the Germans and accepted the voting stuff then there would be no massive war, at least that year.
Furthermore, had the Serbs not tried to impose serbification on the non muslims, yugoslavia would probably still exist today and would be a pretty good country honestly. I love serbia.
28 66402 29 66404>>66064 (OP)
Yeah keep listening to your glow nigger ashit
Yeah keep listening to your glow nigger ashit
31 71059>>>66134
?
32 71086>>66136
That's where you are lying. Because it's illegal to incite hatred towards groups of people. Media can't do it.
Stupid Americans and Gayropeans are memes pro-westerners use sarcastically to insult Russia.
Yes, this exists. Again, it's not what Russian media say. It's what some people say. I knew one man who called coworkers from Middle Asia apes. Some people say churka or black. It's something to be ashamed of...
...but it doesn't make your statement true. I'm Russian and I am not a xenophobe. My family aren't. My friends aren't. It's difficult to me to remember a xenophobe I know personally besides the man I worked with.
> Reead russian news, talk to modern russians
That's where you are lying. Because it's illegal to incite hatred towards groups of people. Media can't do it.
> Amricans are idiots. Europeans are gays and stupid.
Stupid Americans and Gayropeans are memes pro-westerners use sarcastically to insult Russia.
> Asians are monkeys.
Yes, this exists. Again, it's not what Russian media say. It's what some people say. I knew one man who called coworkers from Middle Asia apes. Some people say churka or black. It's something to be ashamed of...
> russians are fucking nazzi
...but it doesn't make your statement true. I'm Russian and I am not a xenophobe. My family aren't. My friends aren't. It's difficult to me to remember a xenophobe I know personally besides the man I worked with.
33 71104>>66064 (OP)
i would say it means: kakie zhe hohly degeneraty pizdets prosto but i won't. Because these ones are legendary people they always turn out to be right in any argument they partake.
i would say it means: kakie zhe hohly degeneraty pizdets prosto but i won't. Because these ones are legendary people they always turn out to be right in any argument they partake.
37 71233>>71227
Мне вот интересно, это забесплатно такие шедевры либерашьей мысли сочиняют и рисуют? или на заказ? Это ж придумать надо такое.
Мне вот интересно, это забесплатно такие шедевры либерашьей мысли сочиняют и рисуют? или на заказ? Это ж придумать надо такое.
39 71244>>66064 (OP)
ukrainian nationalists hate russians so they are our enemies
ukrainian nationalists hate russians so they are our enemies
42 71256>>71238
Я про оригинальный комикс. Мысли немецкого деда - нижняя панель оригинального комикса.
Сексуальная объективация чернокожего мужчины.
Я про оригинальный комикс. Мысли немецкого деда - нижняя панель оригинального комикса.
> germany volksfest.png
Сексуальная объективация чернокожего мужчины.
44 71277>>66136
Cringe. Those people is terrible. I mean, the Mexican Nationalism is crap but the Ukrainian is even worst.
>Ukrainian nationalism
Cringe. Those people is terrible. I mean, the Mexican Nationalism is crap but the Ukrainian is even worst.
46 71298
>>71286
it is jewish facism/nationalism, aka zionism. khazaria was their very first jewish state, based on their religion only. israel came much much later. when khazaria was destroied jews went to UK, Azerbajan(Kaballah) and Machakh-Allah(dagestan)
it is jewish facism/nationalism, aka zionism. khazaria was their very first jewish state, based on their religion only. israel came much much later. when khazaria was destroied jews went to UK, Azerbajan(Kaballah) and Machakh-Allah(dagestan)
47 71305>>66064 (OP)
The fact that all this shit come up to public attention after maidan makes me think it comes from Russia and kremlin bots.
The fact that all this shit come up to public attention after maidan makes me think it comes from Russia and kremlin bots.
48 71306>>66136
Let us put like this.
Russians can not be nazi, because no russian nation exists. It is purely imperialistic identity. Russians are represented by many ethnicities who have been conquered by the empire and their historical memory was banned and whiped out by imperialist agents.
And those poor blind people are now calling themselves russians and acting like their oppressors. They are opposed to any manifestation of nationalism among themselves and consider them traitors.
So russians act kinda like nazis but not against jews and gipsy. They do it against their buddies and themselves. This is the result of broken logic and failure to recognize that russian nation have never existed. no such ethnicity, its all fake.
>Modern russians are anti-national fascists
Let us put like this.
Russians can not be nazi, because no russian nation exists. It is purely imperialistic identity. Russians are represented by many ethnicities who have been conquered by the empire and their historical memory was banned and whiped out by imperialist agents.
And those poor blind people are now calling themselves russians and acting like their oppressors. They are opposed to any manifestation of nationalism among themselves and consider them traitors.
So russians act kinda like nazis but not against jews and gipsy. They do it against their buddies and themselves. This is the result of broken logic and failure to recognize that russian nation have never existed. no such ethnicity, its all fake.
49 71307>>66305
You basically saying that it is better to have war and let slavic peoples kill each other for the sake of unification. No need to say, that survivors will think even worse about your idea of unification.
>it's best that all Slavic people's unite into a single state
You basically saying that it is better to have war and let slavic peoples kill each other for the sake of unification. No need to say, that survivors will think even worse about your idea of unification.
50 71308
Also, modern russian state uses nazist symbols
56 71331>>71316
Thanks, Abu. The owner of the imageboard imposes his political views on Belarusian visitors.
>>71308>>71315
The tricolor is the flag of the Russian Empire. Fun fact: Ukrainian (and apparently Belarusian) neo-Nazi love calling Russia fascist and Nazi for no reason. So do Navalny's (the man who organizes nationalist events) fans living in Russia.
Thanks, Abu. The owner of the imageboard imposes his political views on Belarusian visitors.
>>71308>>71315
The tricolor is the flag of the Russian Empire. Fun fact: Ukrainian (and apparently Belarusian) neo-Nazi love calling Russia fascist and Nazi for no reason. So do Navalny's (the man who organizes nationalist events) fans living in Russia.
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